Interview: DaN McKee (Hardcore Horror, Anarchist Atheist Punk Rock Teacher)

We spoke with DaN McKee, author, educator, contributor to Earth Island Books’ Hardcore Horror anthology, and creator of Anarchist Atheist Punk Rock Teacher. In this interview, we dive into all things dark fiction, exploring his core inspirations, recurring themes, creative process, and how a punk rock ethos shapes his horror storytelling.

Order Hardcore Horror HERE
Order DaN McKee’s book HERE

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How did you first get into horror? Do you remember the very first horror book or movie that truly terrified you?

My introduction to horror was being about nine years old and a friend’s older brother telling us about Freddy Krueger and describing to us kids what happens in all the Nightmare on Elm Street movies. I didn’t sleep for weeks and the versions in my head were even scarier than the real films when I finally saw them.  But once I saw the real films, I needed to see everything terrifying I could get my hands on!

Over the years, which horror authors, directors, or artists have had the most tremendous impact on your creative sensibilities?

Stephen King and Clive Barker are the two big ones. I read my first Stevie at age eleven and have been a Constant Reader ever since. Stevie showed me how the everyday world can be scary enough, even before we add the supernatural element. Barker, meanwhile, taps into something slightly grander and more ancient in the evil he portrays. They both remain creative touchstones to me all these decades later.

Hardcore Horror brings together voices from the punk, hardcore, and alt-rock communities. What do you think is the connective tissue between the underground music scene and the horror genre?

I wouldn’t have been in a punk band if it weren’t for Stephen King. I had loved the TV miniseries of IT as a kid and started reading his books. I saw a guy at school with a copy of IT in his pocket and we started talking and became best friends. We got into punk together too and, a few years later, he needed a bass player for this new punk band he was forming and, despite me not even knowing what a bass guitar was, he asked me to play. 

We actually did a cover of Pet Semetary at his wedding a few years back (and Killer Klowns from Outer Space by the Dickies). We loved the Ramones, and loved that Stephen King also loved the Ramones. Horror and punk go hand in hand because they both look at the darkest bits of the world, or make fun of the absurdity of the things we hold dear, while also reminding us of the power we have to change the world for the better.

Seriously — horror usually reminds us that we only have each other if we want to survive. People working together against all kinds of seemingly unstoppable shit to overcome evil and make it out the other side. Assholes usually die first or get their comeuppance in the end. There’s an irreverence to horror and an irreverence to punk that make them perfect bedfellows.

Turning to your specific contribution to this Earth Island Books anthology, where did the initial spark or inspiration for your story come from?

I’m a teacher of Religion and Philosophy in my day job and have spent a lot of time over the years talking to Muslims about what is and isn’t considered forbidden within their faith. LGBT issues especially. Also music, especially punk, as well as Islamic ideas around jinns and magic. I also watched as every industry went through its own #METOO revelations and saw how punk had its own inevitable demons too. 

None of this was a clear story idea, but one night I started writing about this queer Muslim punk who had a fanzine, and the asshole she was waiting to interview, and the whole thing just flowed out of me.

Without giving away any major spoilers, what are the core themes or underlying fears you wanted to explore in this piece?

Besides the obvious outrage at historic misogyny and abuse within the punk scene, and wanting to centre a less represented type of punk that I don’t see in a lot of punk writing, I just wanted to explore some theological ideas, write about someone very different from myself, and, as a usually rational and sceptical person, open the door willingly for the supernatural to come in, without judgment or disbelief.

How did your story evolve from the first draft to the final version, and what was the experience like working on it?

It really was an almost stream of consciousness outpouring. I wrote it with no planning or plot, longhand, all in one sitting. Then I tightened it up a bit as I typed it all up from my notebook, tweaking bits here and there. All I knew from the start was this image I had in my head of a smug, predatory asshole, sitting on a guitar amp and tinkling at his guitar in a dingy pub. I knew he’d done something awful and was about to be found out, but I didn’t know how.  Then Saffi popped into my mind. 

I loved coming up with the ideas for Saffi’s ‘zine, Haram, but my favourite stuff in the story is the utterly stupid Stephen King-themed band Jamie Work plays in, All Play No Work, and all the King-related stuff on their album, “Here’s Jack Nicholson”.  Those references were for the real ones!

What was the most challenging aspect of writing this particular story? Was it nailing the ending, writing a specific terrifying scene, or something else entirely?

I am not a woman, nor am I am Muslim, and yet I chose to write a story from the perspective of a Muslim woman.  Perhaps this was a story that should have been written by someone who’s actually lived it.  I was writing about prejudices I have never experienced, communities I am not part of, and traumas I do not have.  On the one hand, that is the very essence of imaginative writing, and I know I did enough research to make a good go of it. 

But I am all too aware, and I was while writing too, that this is not necessarily my story to tell.  I struggled a bit with that.  Especially because, when I wrote it on the couch in my notebook that day, it wasn’t intended for publication.  I just had these ideas rattling around, it was a lazy day during the holidays, and I thought I’d see what came out.  Then I realised I liked what I’d written.  Liked it a lot.  And thought people should read it.

Maybe it’s a self-serving point of view, but my reasoning was that I could wait around and hope for someone more appropriate to write the same sort of story, but if I did that and no-one did, then it would be just another story collection without this perspective, representation, or whatever you want to call it, included.  So in the end I thought, hopefully, if any actual Islamic punks out there read it and get annoyed at any inaccuracies or things I got wrong, it would just inspire them to pick up a pen too.

I also think the more we engage with other perspectives than our own, the more we learn and grow, so I’m not even sure I believe in the idea of only writing about what you know.  I’m equally not an abusive monster like Jamie Work in the story (even though I am a male atheist punk like he is).  Should I not write about that sort of thing either unless I’ve experienced it myself?  Horror, especially, is hopefully a genre where none of us have actually got lived experience of everything that happens in our stories. 

If I can write from the perspective of a supernatural being, a Lovecraftian Ancient One, a vampire, a werewolf, a ghost, why not also allow ourselves to write from someone who is a different gender or faith or social class or sexuality or age than yourself?

When it comes to your writing process, how do you approach crafting a short horror story? Are you a detailed outliner, or do you let the narrative unfold organically?

I usually tend to just write and see where it leads, but often I keep notebooks or note files on my phone with little jottings of ideas that may or may not find their way into the final version after that instinctive first draft.  

Horror relies heavily on pacing and atmosphere. What techniques do you use to build tension and a sense of dread on the page?

I’ve always been wary of formulae and strategy when it comes to art.  I go by my gut most of the time, in music and in writing.  I’ve been reading horror for over thirty years, including reading books by horror writers about the craft of writing, and have internalised a general sense of scary as a result.  I no doubt use all kinds of techniques, but none are intentional.  I just know what feels creepy or fucked up and what doesn’t. 

The last time I thought explicitly about technique was in my English Literature GCSE exam decades ago.  I had just read a Dean Koontz interview about building tension in his thrillers and we were asked in the exam to write about a rollercoaster.  I remember using all these Koontz techniques to build up the tension as the car crawled up the incline to its eventual descent and ended up with an A* for the exam.  But it felt cheap to me because I was just following orders.

How do you approach character development in a short format, ensuring that the reader cares about the protagonist before the horrific elements take over?

When I’m not writing or making music (or teaching) I also do improv comedy, which is usually very short scenes where you only have a few lines, or a single physical gesture, to establish your character.  I take the techniques from improv and use them on the page: what is this person’s obsession?  What is their attitude about the world or the people around them?  And how can you establish that as economically as possible?  So do they enter the room quietly, or do they barge through the door and push past a bunch of people?  Do they shake a person’s hand or stare at them coldly?  Does their tone of voice turn the phrase “that’s lovely” into a compliment, or into sarcasm? 

And the big idea I take for character development from improv is the question: if that’s true, what else is true?  So if they barge into the room and push past people, what other pushy things might they do?  They might reach across the table and take some food off someone else’s plate.  They might speak over people.  They probably believe they are the most important person in the room, and that would translate into saying things about everybody else that point out only their failings and lower level.  So just a couple of thoughts, words, or actions, and the reader (or viewer, if improv) should know who they’re dealing with.  You don’t have the luxury to do it slowly in a short story or a three minute scene.   

Horror as a genre is incredibly vast and constantly evolving. What are your thoughts on the current state of horror literature and cinema?

Every time I think I’ve read or seen it all, something always comes along that makes me go wow.  Weapons, for example.  Or there was Backrooms, recently, which really messed with my perception of reality.  Made me see the everyday world very differently. And I loved the gory fun of things like Obsession or The Monkey.  And writers like Grady Hendrix, Paul Tremblay, Eric LaRocca, Vanessa Santos, and Alison Rumfitt have stopped me in my tracks with the weird and wonderful things they write. 

But I also love that we still honour the past — Joe Hill’s last book did some amazing things, including incorporating his father, Stephen King’s, work in his own.  And I’m a total sucker for all the reboots and umpteenth sequels of old franchises.  Final Destination, Scream, Saw, etc.  And other modern adaptations and expansions of old King stuff, like Welcome to Derry, have been great too.  I’m really looking forward to the new version of Carrie, for example, Mike Flanagan has done.  

If you had to recommend one essential horror book and one essential horror movie, what would they be?

Essential book: Clive Barker’s Books of Blood.  A perfect collection of stories.

Essential movie: Either Halloween or the first Nightmare on Elm Street.  I’ll probably have to go with Halloween because the final scene of Elm Street kind of messes up the movie in my opinion, whereas Halloween is just undeniably great.  That said, if the BBC’s Ghostwatch counts as a movie, that remains — hands down — the scariest thing I’ve ever seen.

What is next for you? Are there any upcoming books, projects, or other creative endeavors we should keep on our radar?

I just finished the first draft of a novel over the summer.  Something about death, family, and comedy that I’m really proud of but am sitting on for a bit before revisiting for a second draft so I can give my mind time to breathe and look at it again with new eyes.  But I’m really excited to try and get that out into the world eventually.  And I have a notes file on my phone called HARDCORE HORROR II? and it contains several very compelling ideas, so watch this space.

Finally, what is the one wavering thought or feeling you hope readers take away after finishing your story in the anthology?

I need to get a new tattoo.